Charles Manson’s 1992 Parole Hearing
SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING
STATE OF CALIFORNIA
BOARD OF PRISON TERMS
In The Matter of The Life Term Parole Consideration Hearing of:
CHARLES MANSON
CDC NUMBER B – 33920
CALIFORNIA STATE PRISON
CORCORAN, CALIFORNIA
TUESDAY
APRIL 21, 1992
1332 HOURS
MEMBERS PRESENT
Ron Koenig, Board Comissioner, Presiding
Joseph Aceto, Board Commissioner
Cleo Brown, Deputy Board Commissioner
ALSO PRESENT
Charles Manson, Inmate
Stephen Kay, Deputy District Attorney County of Los Angeles
P R O C E E D I N G S
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: These hearings are being taped, Mr. Manson, so if you would answer up so that it will be recorded, please.
This is a subsequent parole consideration hearing for Charles Manson, B-33920. Received California Department of Corrections on April the 22nd, 1971 pursuant to Penal Code Section 1168 for violation of Section 187; California Penal Code, first degree murder, counts one through seven and 182.1/187, conspiracy to commit murder, count eight, stayed; Los Angeles County case number A-252156.
On February the 2nd, 1977, this sentence was changed being case number A-252156 from death to life pursuant to Court of Appeal. The prisoner was additionally received on December the 13th, 1971 for violation of P.C. 187, first degree murder, concurrent with prior term, Los Angeles County case number 8267861, count one.
Counts two and three of case number A-267861 for violation of P.C. 182.1/187/211 and 187, conspiracy to commit murder and robbery and first degree murder were stayed.
The controlling minimum eligible parole date is December – was December 13th, 1978.
Today’s date is April the 22nd, 1971 [sic]. The time is now 1332 hours and we are at the Corcoran State Prison.
For purposes – participants in today’s hearing are Commissioners Koenig and Aceto and Deputy Commissioner Brown. Representing – the prisoner has declined an attorney, a state- represented attorney or an attorney of his own. Representing the people of the County of Los Angeles is Stephen Kay. We also have several members of the news media attending the hearing today and the CNPR and assistant CNPR, and we have an observer in the room.
For purposes of identification we’re going to go around the room, state our first name, last name and why we are here. I want only participants in the hearing to participate in this.
I am Ron Koenig. I’ll start and I’ll go to my right. Mr. Manson, when we come to you would you also give your C.D.C. number. Okay.
I am Ron Koenig, K – O – E – N – I – G. and I’m Commissioner for the Board of Prison Terms.
BOARD COMMISSIONER ACETO: Good afternoon. Joe Aceto, A – C – E – T – O. Commissioner, Board of Prison Terms.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Cleo Brown, B- R – O – W – N. Deputy Commissioner, Board of Prison Terms.
MR. KAY: Okay. I’m Stephen Kay, Deputy District Attorney of Los Angeles County.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Mr. Manson?
INMATE MANSON: Charles Manson, inmate, B-33920.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Would you spell your last name please?
INMATE MANSON: M – A – N – S – U – N.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Thank you. Today, Mr. Manson, the panel from the Board of Prison Terms that you see before you will once again consider your suitability for parole, Certain things we have to go through, so let me go through this, if you will please.
INMATE MANSON: Uh-huh,
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: And we have a procedure that we follow, If you follow that it will make it much easier on all of us.
The – you’ve had nine prior hearings. Let me explain the process so you know what’s going on, The hearing is basically broken down into three areas. The first area is the instant offense and I’ll incorporate that instant offense.
And then I’ll give you – and read the instant offense – and then I’ll give you the opportunity to make corrections or additions to the instant offense, Then I’ll talk about your prior criminality -
INMATE MANSON: I don’t understand instant defense.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Instant. That’s the offense that you’re in here for, The murders -
INMATE MANSON: Instant?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes.
INMATE MANSON: Offense?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes. Offenses that you’re in here for. We’ll then go to your social factors and your prior criminality and then we’ll go to the second part of the hearing which is your post-conviction factors and your psychiatric evaluation. That will be handled by Deputy Commissioner Brown on my far right.
The third area of the hearing are your parole plans and Commissioner Aceto will handle your parole plans.
From there we go to questions by any one of the Commissioners regarding any part of the hearing, and then questions by the District Attorney. The District Attorney will pose the questions to the panel and when you answer his questions would you please answer the panel.
Do you understand what’s going on here so far?
INMATE MANSON: Yes. I have a couple questions.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right. It’s alright. Let me finish and then you can ask. We’ll then go to closing statements. The first closing statement will be by the District Attorney and then you’ll have the opportunity for the final closing statement. We will then recess. We’ll make a decision and call you back. Everybody will clear the room when we recess, make a decision. We’ll call you back and we’ll read into the record that decision.
There are certain rights you are afforded, Mr. Manson. You were notified of the hearing. I saw where you were notified, however you refused to sign the notification. Also, you had an opportunity to review your central file and I don’t know whether you did or not. Did you review your central file?
INMATE MANSON: I’ve been checking this thing out that I’m sent here.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. All right, good. You also have a right to appeal the decision within ninety days of receiving that decision.
You have a right to an impartial panel, Mr. Manson. Do you have any problems with the three representatives from the Board of Prison Terms you see before you today?
INMATE MANSON: No, not at all.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Thank you. You’ll receive a tentative written decision today. The decision will be effective in approximately sixty days after the Board of Prison Terms’ review process has taken place.
You are not required, Mr. Manson, to discuss the matter with the panel if you do not wish to. But you must keep in mind that the Board of Prison Terms’ panel accepts as true the Court findings in the case, the fact that you are guilty of these murders. Are you going to talk to the panel today and answer questions?
INMATE MANSON: Yes. Yes, sir.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Would you raise your right hand as best as possible. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you give today will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
INMATE MANSON: Yes, sir.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Thank you. Okay, at this time I’m going to incorporate the instant offense from the decision held on December the 1st, 1982, pages two through six.
INMATE MANSON: I don’t have that.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. I’m going to read it to you so you can – if you would listen to- and then I’ll give you opportunity to make corrections or additions to the instant offense.
INMATE MANSON: I’m a little nervous.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. Just settle down because it’s very informal and we want you to relax as we go through this. Are you still – you’re nervous?
INMATE MANSON: Yes. Yes, yes, very. I’ve been a long time sitting in that cell -
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Well, we have a lot of people who -
INMATE MANSON: – I’m not used to people that much.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. Let me read the instant offense. If you’ll listen please -
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: we need to make a correction. The date is the — April 21st.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Excuse me, The date today is April the 21st, 1992. Thank you.
Shortly before midnight on August – I’m reading from the second – third page – second page of the Board report dated 12/01/82. Shortly before midnight on August 8, 1969 the prisoner informed his crime partners that now is the time for helter skelter. The crime partners were directed to accompany Charles Watson to carry out the orders given by the prisoner. The crime partners at the time were Linda Cabastian
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Kasabian.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Kasabian, Susan Atkins and Patricia Krenwinkel. As the crime partners were in the car getting ready to leave the area, the prisoner informed them, “you girls know what I mean,” something to which he instructed them to leave a sign. Crime partner Watson drove directly to 10050 Selio – Selio [phonetic spelling] Drive where he stopped the car. Linda Kasabian held three knives and one gun during the trip. Watson then cut the overhead telephone wires at the scene and parked the vehicle.
INMATE MANSON: Excuse me. Where we getting this from?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: This is from the Board report dated 12/01/82. Do you have a copy of that?
INMATE MANSON: No, I don’t. Who – whose signature’s on the end of that?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: This is a Board report. This is the hearing that was held at that particular time -
INMATE MANSON: Uh-huh.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: – and this was the reading of the instant offense at that particular time.
INMATE MANSON: That sounds like a book.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Well, if you’ll listen and then you can make corrections.
INMATE MANSON: Yes. Okay.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay?
INMATE MANSON: Yes.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right. Crime partner Atkins and Krenwinkel had been in the back seat with Linda Kasabian, the passenger in the right front seat. Watson then carried some [inaudible] over the hill and to the outer premises of 10050 Selio Drive.
The vehicle containing victim Stephen Parent [phonetic spelling] approached the gate opening into the street. Watson stopped him at gunpoint and Parent stated, “please don’t hurt me, I won’t say anything.’ Watson shot Parent five times and turned off the ignition of his car.
All of the crime partners then proceeded to the house where Watson cut a window screen. Linda Kasabian acted as a lookout while another female crime partner entered the residence through an open window and admitted the other crime partners.
Within the residence the prisoner’s crime partners, without provocation, logic or reason, murdered Abigail Anne Folger by inflicting a total of 28 multiple stab wounds on her body. Victim Wachezski – excuse me – victim -
MR. KAY: Voitek [phonetic spelling]
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Voitek, count two, was killed by multiple stab wounds. A gunshot wound to his left back and multiple forced trauma of blunt nature to the head. Victim Sharon Tate Polanski was killed with multiple stab wounds. Victim Jay Sebring was killed by multiple stab wounds.
On August the 10th, 1969, the prisoner drove his crime partners to a location near the residence of victim Leo and Rosemary LaBanca – LaBianca. The prisoner entered the LaBianca home alone at gunpoint and tied up the victims.
He impressed them with the statement that they would not be harmed and that a robbery was taking place. He then returned to the vehicle containing his crime partners and then directed them to enter that residence and kill the occupants. He informed them not to notify the victims that they would be killed.
Crime partner Charles Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten, then entered the residence and the prisoner drove away from the scene. The crime partners entered the residence and in a callous manner killed Leo LaBianca by inflicting multiple stab wounds to his neck and abdomen. Rosemary LaBianca was killed by multiple stab wounds which were inflicted to the neck and trunk.
The crime partners carved the wood war – the word war on the Leo LaBianca’s stomach with the use of a carving fork. At both of the above murder scenes, the prisoner’s crime partners used blood of their victims to write the words.
Under case number A-267861, the prisoner was received into the institution on December 13th, 1971 for violation of first degree murder concurrent with prior term. The pistol, knives and swords were used in the following crimes which the prisoner committed with crime partners Bira Alstea- how do you pronounce that?
MR. KAY: Beausoleil.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Beausoleil, and Atkins and Grogan and Davis. The prisoner directed the crime partners to go to the home of victim Gary Allen Highman -
MR. KAY: Hinman.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: – and have him sign over his property. The crime partners followed the prisoner’s directions and on July 26th, 1969 they contacted the prisoner from the Hinman residence. Prisoner and Davis then went to the Hinman home and the prisoner struck Hinman with a sword severing a part of the right ear and causing a laceration to the left side of his face from his ear to his mouth. The prisoner and Davis then drove away from the crime scene in Hinman’s automobile.
On July 27th, 1969 after suffering three days of tortuous treatment, Hinman was killed by a stab wound through the heart which was inflicted by Beausoleil.
When Hinman was found in the Topanga Canyon home on July 31st, 1969 he had been stabbed through the heart in addition to suffering a stab wound in the chest, a gash on the top of his head, a gash behind the right ear, and a laceration on the left side of his face which cut his ear and cheek.
This concludes the reading of the instant offense. Do you have any additions or corrections, Mr. Manson, to the-
INMATE MANSON: I’d like to know who signed that, who put their name on it.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Nobody put their name on it. This was a hearing conducted in 1982. Your hearing was conducted at that particular time and that’s the reading of the instant offense as taken from the probation officeris report at the time of the trial that you had. Do you have any corrections or additions to that?
INMATE MANSON: No. We could correct the whole thing because it’s basically hearsay.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. Do you remember what I said at the beginning of the hearing?
INMATE MANSON: Yes.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: I said that we accept as true the court findings in the case. The fact that you were found guilty and you are guilty of those particular murders. If there’s any change or anything you wanted to say about -
INMATE MANSON: So all that is reality to you?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes. Yes, we accept it as true -
INMATE MANSON: And that – and either – even it never happened it’s still reality to you?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes, because you were found guilty by a court of law.
INMATE MANSON: And – okay – and all the things that in that courtroom that went through that courtroom is reality to you?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes. Okay. We accept as true -
INMATE MANSON: Now let me – let me just say one thing.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay.
INMATE MANSON: Nine black Muslims and three Mexicans signed a writ that said I was Jesus Christ. Is that reality to you as well?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: I didn’t read that in the Board report.
INMATE MANSON: Oh, well it’s in the record. I mean, you know.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Well, we’ve read – we have your C-file and all the reports were made available to us.
INMATE MANSON: Okay.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: And I think we know most about, but that’s the reason for the hearing, Mr. Manson -
INMATE MANSON: Okay, okay.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: – that you can bring these things out if you wish.
INMATE MANSON: I think if you’ll look in your own minds for every point, there’s a counterpoint. For every red, there’s a black. For every black, there’s a red.
In other words t what you’re making me into in your reports so that you can write your books and do your Rambo trips and make your movies for public entertainment, is not really what happened and what happened could have been explained but if you will allow me to call a witness?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: No. We do not allow witnesses in here -
INMATE MANSON: I mean, it’s within the panel. I’d like to question that man in front of the panel.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: No. We do not allow that, Mr. Manson. We have a procedure that we follow.
INMATE MANSON: Okay. All right.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Now, if you want to tell about the crime -
INMATE MANSON: Okay.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: – then go ahead and tell about the crime. Otherwise [inaudible] -
INMATE MANSON: Then I will say it and then if it isn’t true, he can interrupt it through you, and then we can talk through you. Is that legal?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: You may- you may – [inaudible]
INMATE MANSON: It says here that I can call witnesses on this paper here.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: No.
INMATE MANSON: This says I got these rights to do that.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: No, you do not. If you would please respond to me there – any additions or corrections to the instant offense that I just read?
INMATE MANSON: Yes. I didn’t tie anybody up.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay.
INMATE MANSON: I was never on the scene where anyone was killed. I think the law says you can only keep me 17 years or 18 years if I was never on the scene when anyone was killed. I was never on the crime scene of anything.
The closest I came to the crime scene is I cut Hinman’s ear off in a fight over some money because the Frenchman – he wouldn’t pay the Frenchman and I told him, why don’t he be a man about himself and pay his debts? And we had a fight.
So to – in order to hook me up to that they say well, they tortured the dude three days. I was gone from that scene of that crime for three days. I was never on the scene of any crime. I never told anyone directly to do – to go anywhere and do anything.
I always said – and mostly it come from the witness stand – I said like, you know what to do, you have a brain of your own, don’t ask me what to do, I’ve just got out of prison, I don’t know what’s going on out here. I hadn’t been out of jail long enough to really get a perspective of what was happening.
I just was released from McNeil Island and I was in Mexico City prison before that and I was in Terminal Island before that. So I really wasn’t up on the sixties as much as you all make me out to be. I had just got out of prison.
Most of those people, I – like Kasabian, I knew her two weeks. I had seen her two or three times around the ranch. I had never even been with the broad, man, that much, you know. People came around me because I played a lot of music and I was fairly free and open because I really didn’t know, honestly.
Everyone says that I was the leader of those people, but I was actually the follower of the children because, like I never grew up. I’ve been in jail most of this time, so I stayed in the minds of the children. And I’m pretty much a street person so violence is no new thing to me. And people getting hurt around me is no new thing.
I’ve lived in prison all my life. That happens all the time. I’ve always walked on a line. In Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, all across this country. Cook County jail, Chicago, it’s always about fighting. That’s part of everyday life where I live, you know.
So, a lot of the things that people were doing were just their own little episodes that they get involved in and they looked at me like I was something like a friend or a brother or a father or someone that understood because I learned in prison that you can’t really tell any one anything because everybody’s got their own perspective. And all you can do is reflect people back at themselves and let them make up their own mind about things.
So, when Beausoleil come to me with, could I be a brother? I told him certainly, you know. So we were like in a little brotherhood together, like we didn’t lie to each other. And whatever he said do, I would do. And whatever I said do, he would do.
But as far as lining up someone for some kind of helter skelter trip, you know, that’s the District Attorney’s motive. That’s the only thing he could find for a motive to throw up on top of all that confusion he had.There was no such thing in my mind as helter skelter. Helter skelter was a song and it was a nightclub – we opened up a little after-hours nightclub to make some money and play some music and do some dancing and singing and play some stuff to make some money for dune buggies to go out in the desert.
And we called the club Helter Skelter. It was a helter skelter club because we would be there and when the cops would come, we’d all melt into other dimensions because it wasn’t licensed to be anything in particular. And that was kind of like a speakeasy back in the moonshine days behind the movie set.
And I’m an outlaw. That’s – they’re right there, you know, and I’m a gangster and I’m bad and I’m all the things that I want to be. I’m pretty free within myself. I cut people and I shoot them and I do whatever I have to do to survive in the world I live in. But that has nothing to do with me breaking the line.
Let me explain something about the penitentiary in my mind. I came to Gilbault in Terre Haute, Indiana overlooking the federal penitentiary in Indiana. And I was raised by a bunch of monks that taught us how to tell the truth and how to play handball and how to box in a boxing ring.
So, I learned to fight early and I ran off and stole a bicycle and then I went to reform school for that. And I ran off from reform school. And all my life I’ve been in prison. I’ve been in jail running off. I never went to school. I’ve never grown up. I’ve never accepted the system. I’ve always accepted the ole man, the ole winos and I accepted the retired veterans that were guards at the prisons and county supervisors and such.
But there’s a line that man walks. All men walk a line. And I walk that line in prison. I don’t tell on other people. I don’t carry tales about other people. If someone’s going to kill themselves, I feel obligated by Christian ethics to tell him don’t do that, your life is worth more than that. But if he continues to go on a self-destructive path, I step from his way. I get out of his way. I’ve learnt that in prison.
Someone’s got a knife and they’re going to do something, I say don’t do that. And they say I’m going to do it, I say I’m gone. It’s got nothing to do with me. So they call me on the phone and said the guy’s got a gun, what do I do? I said, well if he’s got a gun he must be afraid of something.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Hold on a minute. I think he’s kind of straying away from what you had going -
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay.
INMATE MANSON: I ‘m right there in Beausoleil’s murder
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes. I think he’s talking – that’s alright. [inaudible]
INMATE MANSON: I’m right there on the telephone where he called and asked me what to do, This is the point where I got convicted.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Go ahead, Mr. Manson.
INMATE MANSON: It would come from the witness stand that when on the telephone the only thing that ever connected me with Hinman’s murder was Beausoleil called me and asked me what to do and I told him, you know what to do. I didn’t tell him like, [raising voice] you know what to do. I told him, man, you’re a man, grow up juvenile. Don’t ask me what to do. Stand on your own two feet. Be responsible for your own actions. Don’t ask me what to do. I just got out of prison. I don’t want to go back to jail.
I know what walking that line is. It’s a straight razor in the barber shop in McNeil Island. I’ve worked in a straight razor, I’ve worked in the barber shop in the McNeil Island. I was with all the ole men that came out a Alcatraz. I don’t break the law. The old man tells me, if you don’t break the law, you don’t have to go to jail. You break the law, you’re putting yourself in jail. The law is there and the will of God. You break that law, you’re breaking the will of God and you’re going to go to jail. When I got out, that was my symbol. Everybody else was doing this and this and different symbols. I would do that. And they’d say, what is that symbol? I’d say, that symbol is, I got one positive thought. I’m in a rebirth movement. I just come out a prison. I got a chance to start over. And I’m starting over and I’m not breaking no laws. So don’t come around me with no- nothing. I don’t want no money. I’ll eat out of garbage cans. I’ll stay on the complete bottom. I’m underneath this snake here. I’m not breaking no law.
So a lot a people came to me from the underworld and in the outlaw world and run away from the war, from the Vietnam War. That was – what’s his name – them guys that testified for you on them motorcycles. Them Italian kids that came off of that Venice, California. They took the witness stand and they said everything they could get away with to get their cases dropped. There wasn’t a witness that took that witness stand -
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. I don’t want to go into the hearing, Mr. Manson. Just talk about the crime. Any changes from what I read which is -
INMATE MANSON: Well, that’s what made that- that’s what wrote that down is what all these people said to you guys, you know. They told you all these trips about what I said, and when I said it, and how in the hell -
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: But any more
INMATE MANSON: – could you possibly know what I said to somebody 25 years ago in the corner of – when we were only talking to ourselves and I couldn’t even remember what that – what I said. I may have said just anything, but I know what I would say now and I don’t lie, so I know what I would say then, you know. And I certainly wouldn’t tell nobody to go in and do nothing to anybody that I wouldn’t want done to me.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay.
INMATE MANSON: Listen, listen. I got enough sense to know that if I spit on you, that you – that gives you the God-given right to spit on me back. Anything I do to you got the right to do right back to me. And I’m not going get caught up in that. I’ve been in jail long enough to know if you go over on the other side of that yard and you beat somebody up and you walk that lines, pretty sooner or later somebody’s going beat you up.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. Let me go on a little bit, okay, and talk about your prior criminality. You’ve covered it pretty well. It says here that you started your criminal history when you were very young, is that right? Back in ‘48 you went to Terre Haute, Indiana Boys School because of a burglary of a grocery store. And then you went AWOL from the school and was placed in Indiana State Reformatory -
INMATE MANSON: Before you get into that, before you rush me off into that.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay.
INMATE MANSON: Every time I go to these committees
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Uh-huh.
INMATE MANSON: – I’ll wait two or three years for you and I’ll sit in the cell and stare at the wall for two or three years just waiting for you people. And then when you get here you can’t even give me five minutes.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: No -
INMATE MANSON: You’re in such a rush, you know, you know.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right. Then what I -
INMATE MANSON: You have to slow down with my mind and to – to see where your mind is.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right. All right. You’re right.
INMATE MANSON: Let me say this. The courtroom- Charles Older would not been sitting on that bench had I not went in the courtroom. So, we’re kind a like married in this thought together, like we’re together whether we want to be here together or not, you know, we’re stuck in this madness, you know.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Right.
INMATE MANSON: I don’t want this job. I’m not getting paid very much, you know.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: No, that’s true.
INMATE MANSON: And you’re certainly going to get paid if you take your time, so give me time to finish what I was trying to do, will you, please?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Is it on the crime, Mr. Manson?
INMATE MANSON: Yes sir, it is.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. Then -
INMATE MANSON: Yes, sir. It’s the very same thing that you read.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay.
INMATE MANSON: You know, I kind of anticipated what you were going to say because you’ve been saying the same thing for 20 years.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right.
INMATE MANSON: This has grown so much that the people living in my life have moved in with uniforms and penitentiaries. They built whole penitentiaries in the fear that they generated off of this case. So the public can feel safe against this monster, we’re going to charge you 200 million dollars to build another set of penitentiaries.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Mr. Manson -
INMATE MANSON: so people living in my life, they don’t care whether I broke the law or not. They’ll make up a lot a things and sell a lot a books, 58 of them to be exact, and billions of dollars has been made. And it’s okay if I have to spend my life in prison – let me finish – just to hold me because I’ve shown you some strong strength and I haven’t surrendered to – to this by – by copping out to you or telling tales on someone else or playing weak. You’ve medicated me, you’ve burnt me, you’ve beat me, you’ve stabbed me, you’ve done everything you can do to me and I’m still here. And you’re still going have to face the truth about this case sooner or later. If not here -
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: [inaudible]
INMATE MANSON: – in the street.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right, Mr. Manson. I’m going to give you an opportunity to give a closing statement and you can read that or talk about that at that particular time.
We’re going to now talk about your prior criminality. I said before, and I think you stated that you were placed in a boys school at an early age, in 1948, for burglary. You tried to escape from there or run away, whatever it was, and you were placed in Indiana State Reformatory.
Again went AWOL in February of ‘51. You stole an automobile, went to Utah. You were arrested there and you were convicted of the Dyer Act and sentenced to the National Training School for Boys in Washington, D.C.
Your adult convictions there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight or nine adult convictions beginning in 1955 and ending in 1969. They’ve consisted of the Dyer Act – you were sentenced to three years in federal prison for that, attempted escape, five years probation; forgery, mail theft, ten years suspended; Los Angeles probation violation; ten years federal prison, McNeil Island, Washington; South Ukiah, interfering with an officer, three years probation; and in Ventura possession of a drivers license and in Los Angeles, was the instant offense of murders.
Now you said you also spent time in Mexico in a prison.
INMATE MANSON: Yes, I was in Mexico for -
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: In prison down there?
INMATE MANSON: In Mexico City, prison, yes. Immigration prison.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: What was that for?
INMATE MANSON: I had been accused of killing some French people and a couple dudes in Acapulco.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: And how long were you in prison down there?
INMATE MANSON: I was there a couple different times.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: A couple times?
INMATE MANSON: Uh-huh.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: I have here under your personal factors, Mr. Manson, that you were born on – in 1934 in Cincinnati, Ohio. Your mother was Kathy Maddox, who never – and you never saw your natural father.
INMATE MANSON: That’s not true.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: It’s not true?
INMATE MANSON: No. My father’s name was William Manson.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: William?
INMATE MANSON: Yes.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: And did you live with him for a while?
INMATE MANSON: No. You know, it’s one of those divorce trips where you see a guy walk by and he’s your father and you really don’t – you know, I remember his boots -
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes.
INMATE MANSON: – and I remember him when he went to the war. I remember when he – his uniform, but I don’t remember what he really looked like.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Your mother was arrested shortly after the birth and sentenced to prison for assault and robbery?
INMATE MANSON: Yes.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: And you lived with your maternal grandparents in West Virginia. You don’t have a southern accent, do you?
INMATE MANSON: When I need it.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes, when you need it. you later resided in foster homes until you were made a ward of the court in ‘47. The rest of your juvenile life was spent in various informatories, reformatories and boys schools in Pennsylvania and Indiana. You dropped out of school at the age of 9 in the third grade. You married Rosealie Willis in 1954. The marriage ended in divorce in 1956. You have one son, Charles, Jr. which resulted from this marriage, but you have not seen your son since the divorce. Is that correct, Mr. Manson?
INMATE MANSON: I don’t know.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Okay. It says here, no military service. You used L.S.D. extensively, mescaline, amphetamines and barbiturates, but no alcohol. Is that correct?
INMATE MANSON: No.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: No? Enlighten me.
INMATE MANSON: I’ve taken a few tabs of acid, I smoked grass, I smoked a little hash. I don’t mess with drugs, per se. I don’t do anything self destructive. I like the cactus buds. They’re a spiritual experience, and I -
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Peyote?
INMATE MANSON: And mushrooms are okay.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes.
INMATE MANSON: I drink scotch whiskey. I like scotch whiskey and I drink beer occasionally. I’m not much of a wine drinker, but now and then some wine with meals is alright.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: You get any of that in here?
INMATE MANSON: No, no, no.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right. We’re going to – remember I said there was three areas of the hearing. The second area is your post-conviction factors. We may come back to this. I told you one area we have questions.
INMATE MANSON: Do I get to say anything about that?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Oh, yes. We’re going to do that in just a little bit. We’re going to go to your post-conviction factors and your psychiatric factors and your psychiatric evaluation. Now, that’s everything that’s happened to you since your last hearing, and also the evaluation and Deputy Commissioner Brown will handle that on my far right.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Koenig.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: You’re welcome.
INMATE MANSON: Do I get a minute here – in between there?
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Why do you want a minute?
INMATE MANSON: To respond to just what that record that you laid out there?
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: We’ll go back to that. You -
INMATE MANSON: There’s just no way my mind can handle that.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right-
INMATE MANSON: In other words, I don’t have the papers you have and I can’t refer to what you’re referring to, you know.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: Yes. You may respond to this right now, if you wish. Go ahead.
INMATE MANSON: Okay, okay. What that whole first 11 years being locked up in was trying to get away. You’ve got a juvenile. You lock him up in juvenile hall, you don’t know anything. He’s got no parents. He’s got nobody telling him the truth. Everybody’s lying to him. So the only thing he can do is run away.
So that’s all I did. I ran away. And everytime I ran away, they just got me and put me in a harder place to get away. So everytime I would run away, they would take me and put me in a more difficult place to run away until I got to the federal prison system.
I ran through Indiana and I ran through Illinois and I ran through Ohio. And then when they put me in Washington, D.C., Dr. Hartman put me in Virginia, Natural Bridge Camp with a [inaudible] and that was in 1952 – ‘51. Then I went to Petersburg – Camp Petersburg, Virginia where they got the military academy.
And then I went to Pennsylvania, then I went to Ohio, and then in 1954 I got out and I [inaudible] knew what I was doing. I’m still nine years old in third grade in my mind. I couldn’t very well know what was going on, you know, I never had any help from anyone. No one ever done anything for me.
So what I did was I married the first girl I came to and stole a car and came to California because that’s where she wanted to come and I just followed her around like a blind guy because I really don’t – California was a -you know, I didn’t know what California was. you know, I’m this dumb hillbilly. I thought the pigeons were sea gulls and the sea gulls were pigeons. I didn’t know the difference, you know.
So when I got to California, it was all about fighting in the county jail. I wasn’t out there on the street but what, maybe two or three weeks before they had me in the jail back in Terminal Island.
So I went through the lieutenant there and they brought the guys – the lieutenants and the men that were in the uniforms from the dentist office and all the Navy and the doctors from Dr. Hartman, they brought them from back East, they brought them to Terminal Island with a lot of the old time gangsters that were being released. They’re going to Needles, California and out in the desert, to doing different things in the – in the Mafia world, in that old underworld, where they made all that moonshine stuff.
So I learned all the things they learned. So this – I’m picking up all these things from all these older men. So they’re laying out to me what’s right and what’s wrong, and I don’t really know what’s right and what’s wrong, because people that say what’s right and wrong, they’re not doing what they say. They’re doing something different than what they say, you know. So I had to find all this out for myself.
So then when you keep calling me a criminal and keep calling me a bad guy, then I got to be all the things that you think in your mind that I am, which is – that’s not really what I am. you got me being a bastard, you got me being a dope fiend. You got me being everything’s bad. I’m only five foot tall. I was five-seven, then I went to five-six, now I’m down to five-two. I figure about another 20 years, I’ll be about four feet tall, because everybody’s just constantly pushing it over on me, like they got permission to get away with doing anything they want to do to me, because I don’t have no parents, because I don’t have no money, because I don’t have no education.
You’ve got to have some education or some parents or you’re not smart. You’ve got to be stupid if you don’t read and write, you know. You’ve got to be all the things that are bad if you ain’t got nobody to protect you, because you find out in that cell, the only person that loves you, Jesus Christ.
And that rebirth movement in 1967 was mine. Now you can tell Carter and all them other people that have been stealing my life everyday and living in my reality, you know, that they can read Corinthians 13, chapter verse, you know. And that’ll handle that part of it. That’s the end of what I got to say then.
PRESIDING BOARD COMMISSIONER KOENIG: All right. You did a good job there. We’re going to go to the second area of the hearing now. Mr. Brown will handle your post- convictions.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: I want to start right in with your C.D.C. 115s. You have about 60 of them. And it doesn’t appear that you have been doing very much to change them. I won’t go all the way back past 1981. As a matter of fact, I’ll start in ‘83. Your last time you appeared before the Board was 1981, and I’m sure that that panel reviewed all of those 115s with you prior to that time.
There are 60 of them starting from that time. Disrespect towards staff, possession of hacksaw blade. Do you have a copy of those?
INMATE MANSON: No.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: [Inaudible] violence, dangerous properties?
INMATE MANSON: No. No, I know what all those are though.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: I want you – I’m going to read a couple this year that you had. March 14th, 1992 threatening staff. [reading] on 03/14/92 at approximately 1510 hours while conducting my duties as floor officer, I was sweeping up a tier [inaudible] when Inmate Manson, B-33920 verbally demanded I go out to the S.H.U. yard and clear the showers now – clean the showers now because in my – in his opinion they’re dirty. I informed Inmate Manson that I didn’t have time to clean them today. Inmate Manson began to call me a liar and treacherous bitch. Inmate Manson also stated, I would like to break all the bones in your body starting with your elbow working down to your knees. Then Inmate Manson stated, tell that man up there, the patrol group operator to open his cell door and let me beat you into submission so that you’ll be under my power. [end reading]
Do you recall that?
INMATE MANSON: Yes.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Threatening staff -
INMATE MANSON: Do I get to explain it?
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: You want to explain that?
INMATE MANSON: Yes.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: You got it. Go ahead.
INMATE MANSON: Prison is a treacherous place to live in. you miss one move, and you get stabbed. You’ve got to be aware of everything that goes on. There’s nothing that you can overlook. You’ve got to be aware of your air and ventilator that you breath, because if you’ve got emphysema and a Ninja warrior gets in your air, he can stop your air.
So I’m in the shower area. They got some rust that’s coming out of the pipes, and this rust is building up and it looks just exactly like instant coffee. If you take a spoonful of that rust and you mix it in with instant coffee and you give somebody a cup of coffee, you can burn their kidneys out, you can kill them.
So there’s a deadly substance out in the yard that needs cleaned up, because if I’m aware of this substance, when someone else comes out they see this substance, they may pick some of it up and put it in my coffee. So I try to be aware of everything.
So I asked the woman when she came to work – I said, would you take the hose that you’ve been watering me down with and squirting me with when no one’s looking and go out there and squirt down that yard and clean up that mess out there, to where – and she says, well, no, she wasn’t going to do that. I said, well, somebody needs to do that because it’s a danger, you know. So she said she didn’t want to do it and she called me a liar so I called her a liar back.
Now, whether you want to accept this or not, the deer in the woods – there’s a doe and there’s a buck. And the buck comes up to doe and scares the doe and the doe turns around and backs up to the buck. That’s a matriarch and a patriarch. I live in a patriarch. You live in a matriarch. You back up to your women. I don’t back up to my women. I don’t take no lip from my women. I don’t give them none, but I don’t take none either.
If they disrespect me, I’ll disrespect them back. If they hit me, I’ll hit them back.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: I ‘m going to interrupt you. I’m going to read these other two, because they’re along the same line. You keep your thought, and I’ll let you continue to go in that vein for a short while longer, but I’m not going to allow you to ramble all day.
INMATE MANSON: You got it.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: The second one, February the 1st, 1992, written by an officer by the name of Bass and you told her Bass you’re a fucking punk. She attempted to counsel. You stated, open this – Bass open this fucking door and I’ll take that stick away from you and beat your ass with it.
You got another one, February the 10th, i992, officer by the name of Moony. You became verbally abusive saying, get your nose out of my ass, you bitch. When I attempted to proceed with the C.D.C. 115, Manson exposed his penis, and said, suck my dick, you white bitch, you’re nothing but a witch. Manson then proceeded to spit on me.
You may go ahead with your – conclude your statement that you were making about why this kind of behavior keeps going on, as far as you’re concerned.
INMATE MANSON: Prison is a place where they keep men. They chew tobacco, they spit, they cuss, they do bad things. They ride horses, they fall down. It’s not a place where women should be working.
Women come in here and we’re sitting on the toilet. We have to bare down and take our clothes off and bend over and show our private parts and they stand there and gawk. And it’s not a place for a woman. I wouldn’t want my mother working in a prison, if I had one. I wouldn’t want my sisters, I wouldn’t want my old ladies working in a prison.
Prison and the authoritative type jobs kind of- they like certain kinds of jobs. Some women that don’t like men, they like these kind of jobs. They can get over on some men and they feel really good about that, because they didn’t like their father and they don’t like men anyway. Well, I don’t particularly like men either, whatever men is. Or whatever that is to them, it’s got nothing to do with what it is to me.
So what it is to me is like – I say a lot of words they say are bad words. To me, they’re just words. I don’t see good words or bad words. Good and bad is up to the individual to decide whatever he feels likes goods words.
So when you’re talking to a man, you say, hey, you old dirty [unintelligible]. You’re saying things that you’re rapping, what they call the dozens, you’re rapping back and forwards. Then you got a guy and you’re sitting there rapping and you let a stinker, and there’s two guys in the room and (sniff-sniff] one of them smells it and looks at the other one, says wasn’t me. I mean, there’s only two of you there. It could – you know, I mean, how are you going to lie to yourself, you know.
So me and this man is standing there and we’re rapping and man-talking back and forwards and this woman come around the corner like I was talking to her. I wasn’t talking to her to start with. I was talking to the guy.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: You have enough sense to understand that when you accumulated this many disciplinaries, that somewhere along the line, somebody’s saying that you’re doing it wrong. And somewhere in your mind, you need to make some kind of decision that you’re going to make a choice to stop.
INMATE MANSON: Uh-huh.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Now you can sit up and you can rationalize and you can come up with all of the rhetoric that you want to, but it isn’t going to get you out of the hole. You’re just going to continue to dig yourself in deeper.
INMATE MANSON: Okay. Can I explain that?
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Go ahead.
INMATE MANSON: The turnaround, it comes to push, push comes to shove, shove comes looking around to see where you’re up above or down below, where you’re at and how it turns. Something that says good, says bad, that’s good, say what it is, what it is, that’s cool.
So when you catch cool you got some fool coming through the door, you don’t know what he’s doing about what. He just come and fell out of the water like a fish on the floor. And he don’t know what he’s doing, he got no idea where he’s at and he’s coming into other people’s lives talking about words he don’t even know nothing about it.
He comes in to my world, my life, and tells me roo- roo-rah, some old punk ass mother fucker shit that’s going to get me killed if I don’t put up some force fields in his mind to get his ding-dong ass off of me. So I tell him, get off of me. If you don’t get off of me, I’ll teach you how to get off of me. And he learns that, and he turns that around and he tells the inmate, you get up against that wall and shake down.
And then he learns his man from getting the man and when they feel real secure, then they have to get them 115s in before I get to parole, because they want to get them 115s in because they don’t want to ever let me go, because if they let me go they lose the best thing they’ve got because they feel secure as long as they got me locked up in a cell. And they feel like – yeah, they feel like they got the man right there in the box where they can go back and say what’s what to who and says where, and you represent and who in what part or whose courtroom, see.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: All right.
INMATE MANSON: Here’s the thing – let me say this to you Chief Thomas [sic]. When we -
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Hold up, hold up just a minute. My name -
INMATE MANSON: Brown – excuse me, Mr. Brown.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: My name is written right there and don’t you ever call me anything but that name right there. Do you understand?
INMATE MANSON: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Now proceed.
INMATE MANSON: Sure. So it comes to this, it’s like, I’m not going to try to kid you. I’m not going to try playing nothing with you.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: And I’m not going to play with you and let me tell you something else -
INMATE MANSON: Now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute -
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: No, no, no. you wait.
INMATE MANSON: Oh, you want to kick me out of here and [inaudible] go home.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: No, I’m not going to kick you out of here. No way I’m going to kick you out-
INMATE MANSON: Well, I just don’t – you know, like the words you like -
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Hold up. Will you
INMATE MANSON: – what do you want to prove here?
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: And I’m not going to tell Corrections what to do with you, but we’re going to follow some kind of decorum and procedure in this hearing room.
INMATE MANSON: Uh-huh.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: I’m going to let you go just a little bit longer on this that you’re talking about, then we’re going to move to your psych reports. Now go ahead.
INMATE MANSON: I reflect the procedure back to stay alive, man, and I’ve got to get nasty sometimes, because everybody you sending here working over me is not a nice guy, you know. I think if any of you have any experience in jail, you know that jail is not a very nice place to be.
And you have all kinds of different people in all kinds of different levels and I have to deal with all those levels. I have to deal with every kind of psychotic maniac you got in the world trying to burn me up, trying to beat me up, trying to get some attention to get me in any kind of direction he can. And I have to propose a certain image and keep a certain kind of guy stuck up there to keep those bullies off of me. Because if I show any weakness, if I fall down in any perspective, I get ate up because I run with a pack of wolves and I’ve got to be a wolf.
And when it reflects back to you that I’m a no good so and so and so forth, I’m reflecting a procedure that’s reflected on to me. If I don’t have any other choice but to get a 115 to stay out of something more dangerous or more terrible, rather than stand – rather than stay out of my cell and fight this big old ugly guy, I’m going to call him a bunch of names so he’ll put it on paper. And then when he puts it on paper, I say, whew, boy, I didn’t have togo with that physically, then I could do it mentally.
As long as I run my jaw mentally and I get it put on the paper, then physically I can walk around all the violence and I can stay in peace and harmony.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Are you saying that you’re deliberately keeping yourself placed in a security holding unit?
INMATE MANSON: No, I’m saying that we’re all doing this. We all only use each other in different perspectives all the time. If the song’s saying, love won’t let you go – it ain’t got nothing to do with, love won’t let you go. It’s people who need you that they don’t want to let you go.
They need you for different reasons. They need you to feel secure in – because if they got guys they’re afraid of, you got two or three dudes over there that are bad and you’re afraid of them and you’re a correctional officer, but yet you got a guy over here that ain’t afraid of you. It’s like this woman come to work and she goes over to this guy and tells him, turn your radio down, and he tells her, shove it right up your ass [inaudible], run her off.
So she comes over to my cell and because she sees that he’s afraid of me, so she takes my radio away and looks back at him and says, hmnph. So then she uses me to stand up over you, because in the darkness on the yard out there, you do what I tell you to do.
When you’re on that committee, I’ll do what you tell me to do. I’m the man in here. And that’s a fact.
[OFF THE RECORD]
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: This is Tape 2 in the case of Charles Manson, April the 21st, 1992, California State Prison, Corcoran, California.
We’re going to proceed to your psychiatric evaluations. You don’t have one. Well, you had one for this year, but you didn’t have one completed for the Board of Prison Terms specifically.
Bruce T. Reed, Ph.D., Clinic Psychologist, went over to see you on February the l9th and you refused to be evaluated. Any reason why?
INMATE MANSON: Yes, I had two other doctors trying to evaluate me at the same time. I couldn’t – I can’t write that many books.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: What doctors were trying to interview you at that time?
INMATE MANSON: Well, see the front side, you see the doctor coming to me to give me help. The back side, he get his information, he’ll go to Turkey. He’s over in France writing books about the psychotherapy or [inaudible] therapy-
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Which doctors came to visit you at the time Dr. Reed tried to get in?
INMATE MANSON: Dr. Christopherson, Dr. White.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Where are they from?
INMATE MANSON: Right here. Since then, I think Christopherson’s been fired for ethics violation of some sort. Then there’s Willis – Dr. Willis.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Willis came over to see you this -
INMATE MANSON: Willis has been my psychiatrist. We went through – if you’ll check the record, we went through two sessions. He said I was okay for level 3. He said that I was alright for level 3.
What this latest doctor wants is a – what’s happening out of ‘Frisco is this law firm is coming up with new psych evaluation with the prisoners union. The prisoner’s union in San Quentin, they got a bunch of inmates to sign a suit for better psychiatric treatment. What that means is more political power because they’re using the psychiatric base to get their doctors in here so they can get doctors up over the uniform, so they can hold the reality up over the courts and the minds of the people that live inside the prisons. Because when they can do that, then they can do Vacaville.
See when I left Vacaville, there was 12 dead doctors there of heart attacks. Dr. Morgan was the last doctor that they found dead in the parking lot with his brains blown out. I went to doctors -
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Dr. Christopherson saw you on January the 24th of this year.
INMATE MANSON: Yes, sir.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: And in his report of that date, states that he went over to see you because you were not eating. Staff was concerned.
INMATE MANSON: Yes, he came to see me two or three times about that.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: But he didn’t appear to be concerned because he said you were eating something, either candy bars or canteen or -
INMATE MANSON: Yes, I fast a lot.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: – or whatever, but he wasn’t concerned about your not eating. He talked about your paranoid delusional disorder at that time in his report.
INMATE MANSON: Perspective.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: He prescribed a plan for you and that was to put you on [inaudible] and said this will have two affects. One, they will support or deny the fact that he is on hunger strike, and they will also give the inmate a chance to get out of his cell on occasions as a form of environmental stimulation.
On the same vein, one, will have more frequent visit to the psychiatrist. This too will monitor signs and symptoms of active psychosis versus malingering; three, if indeed he’s on a hunger strike, he should be considered for the M.O.U. What’s M.O.U.?
INMATE MANSON: It’s some kind of -
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Memorandum of Understanding? If he does refuse psychotropic -
INMATE MANSON: Medical observation unit.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: Medical observation unit.
INMATE MANSON: Uh-huh.
DEPUTY BOARD COMMISSIONER BROWN: If indeed he’s on a – if he does refuse psychotropic medications, we may ask him [inaudible] our decision, which is adjudged ordered involuntary medication. It should also be noted that we should have a careful monitoring of his intake and output including material from the canteen.
So he’s suggesting that you were kind of faking things a little bit.
INMATE MANSON: Whenever you do something beyond someone else’s understanding, and they don’t want to understand it, they – they’ll hate it and look at it as being bad. It doesn’t really – it isn’t really bad. I fast. I fast to tighten my stomach up. It makes me healthy. It’s a spiritual experience. Sometimes I go ten, 15, 30 days. Sometimes I go longer than that. I fast until I can get my mind straightened around.
Whenever – when a bad circumstance comes to me and I have to deal with the mental situation all around me, I’m surrounded by inmates and officers and all kinds of things beyond your comprehension, I have to sit and I have to balance all those things in my mind.
So what I do is I quit eating, and when I quit eating, what happens is that everything trusts, and trust is going one way, but trust it goes the other way too. I’m your economy. If I don’t eat, then you don’t know whether I’m trusting you, because the only way you know if I trust you is if I eat from your hands.
So I hold all the trust with the food and when I don’t eat, then everybody gets scared and they start going through – they’re not sure and then I’m paranoid, because anything around me is going to be my fault because I’m the last chicken in line.
One chicken – the dogs bark at the chickens and the chickens get to pecking on each other and then you get the last chicken in line and they just peck him till he’s either gone, or they get it straightened around, you know.
And like, being the last chicken in line, I have to take u
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Tags: charles manson, charles manson + parole, Charles Manson's 1992 Parole Hearing, Lifestyle, manson, sharon tate murder
